tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post1744518586285898720..comments2024-01-28T03:56:39.351-08:00Comments on TOM CLARK: The Death of Pliny the ElderUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-13093414969550302992014-06-11T13:03:21.440-07:002014-06-11T13:03:21.440-07:00Tom,
Just now finding this -- I should bring you ...Tom,<br /><br />Just now finding this -- I should bring you a bottle of one of those "legendary vintages" (one of these days) . . . .STEPHEN RATCLIFFEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12339481653546188412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-30324126012722368572014-06-05T09:46:06.537-07:002014-06-05T09:46:06.537-07:00Steve,
Natural philosophy must have provided a wo...Steve,<br /><br />Natural philosophy must have provided a wonderful character-bulwark against vicissitude. And in the case of Pliny Senior, that is one serious case of vicissitude. (It's now generally thought it was the ashthma did him in. An acute attack.) <br /><br />A whiff of the legendary vintages of your next door neighbor reached as far as my willing imagination c. a decade ago, when Hanford generously announced he had a bottle of Sean's wine saved up for us ... and then began to drift away, when Hanford showed up and announced he had, alas, forgotten it. But I can still attest to the power of the anticipatory imagination of its virtues!TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915822857461178942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-3312008706093657262014-06-05T09:25:56.309-07:002014-06-05T09:25:56.309-07:00Tom,
Thanks for the "run-up" to the pas...Tom,<br /><br />Thanks for the "run-up" to the passage from Pliny -- good typing! What calm amid such chaos, how he "ordered a bath to be got ready, and then, after having bathed, sat down to supper with great cheerfulness, or at least (what is just as heroic) with every appearance of it." And how, just before the end, how he "called twice for some cold water, which he drank, when immediately the flames, preceded by a strong whiff of sulphur, dispersed the rest of the party, and obliged him to rise. He raised himself up with the assistance of two of his servants, and instantly fell down dead." "Heroic" indeed, and "respectful to boot." <br /><br />By the way, the passage above from "The Historie of the World" comes from my next door neighbor Sean Thackrey's website (www.wine-maker.net/), who's put together a wonderful compendium of texts on the making and understanding of wine from Xenophon, Vitruvius and Pliny the Younger through to the 19th century. (Maybe you knew him?) You might want to check it out. . .STEPHEN RATCLIFFEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12339481653546188412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-50555725724483164942014-06-04T09:28:33.029-07:002014-06-04T09:28:33.029-07:00When asked by an interviewer about his Pliny poem,...When asked by an interviewer about his Pliny poem, in which it's suggested the natural philosopher's "old body's atoms / Will be whirling, dissolved in the vortices of the universe, / Or live again in an eagle, a young girl, a flower...", Primo Levi answered: "I am not thinking of anything metaphysical. It is an idea as old as the world. It is found in Pythagoras and Lucretius. And besides, the fathers of chemistry in the last century taught that the oxygen we breathe comes from plants, and that the substance that plants and woods are made of comes from the carbon dioxide that we, and all the other animals, produce during our life and after our death."TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915822857461178942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-86172351299658285302014-06-03T14:38:45.058-07:002014-06-03T14:38:45.058-07:00Daniel,
Interesting indeed. The mystery deepens.
...Daniel,<br /><br />Interesting indeed. The mystery deepens.<br /><br />"Where did this old ash come from?" the archeologist said, poking about in the ruins. <br /><br />Duncan,<br /><br />Some people will believe what they wish to believe. This must be the origin of mythology. Desire, need.<br /><br />The epistle of the Younger Pliny to Tacitus is indeed a wonderful piece of reporting, and respectful to boot.<br /><br />Perhaps if Tacitus were alive and writing his history now, his correspondents would be encouraged to a similar acuity and generosity of response. <br /><br />Perhaps.TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915822857461178942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-84618083199566638802014-06-03T13:50:27.101-07:002014-06-03T13:50:27.101-07:00It's an odd thing, the uses people make of suc...It's an odd thing, the uses people make of such deaths. They have to serve as a term within a myth.<br /><br />A chemist's poem if ever there was one.<br /><br />I love the matter-of-factness of the second text.Mose23https://www.blogger.com/profile/01100756913131511440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-69879677545372274432014-06-03T08:12:19.980-07:002014-06-03T08:12:19.980-07:00This is interesting, considering our recent volcan...This is interesting, considering our recent volcanic contemplations —<br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/02/maya-pottery-volcanic-ash_n_5431352.htmlDaniel Abdal-Hayy Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05692776372807142753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-18494420709070942262014-06-02T11:50:42.055-07:002014-06-02T11:50:42.055-07:00And by the by, in case anybody else has considered...And by the by, in case anybody else has considered the possibility, however remotely, however briefly, of an impulsive leap down a narrow stairwell, it's hard to imagine such an ending as preferable to, say, a leap into the crater of an erupting volcano.<br /><br />Just saying... in any event, Diego Gambetta's narrative (see link) makes for compelling reading, and gives rise to a fair amount of afterthought as well -- particularly on the subject of foregone conclusions causing impulsive limited-view leaps into foam-cushion piles of bias and received opinion.TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915822857461178942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-52619442759748629332014-06-02T11:42:11.436-07:002014-06-02T11:42:11.436-07:00[continues:]
"He ordered a light vessel to b...[continues:]<br /><br />"He ordered a light vessel to be got ready, and gave me leave, if I liked, to accompany him. I said I had rather go on with my work; and it so happened, he had himself given me something to write out. As he was coming out of the house, he received a note from Rectina, the wife of Bassus, who was in the utmost alarm at the imminent danger which threatened her; for her villa lying at the foot of Mount Vesuvius, there was no way of escape but by sea; she earnestly entreated him therefore to come to her assistance. He accordingly changed his first intention, and what he had begun from a philosophical, he now carried out in a noble and generous spirit. He ordered the galleys to be put to sea, and went himself on board with an intention of assisting not only Rectina, but the several other towns which lay thickly strewn along that beautiful coast. Hastening then to the place from whence others fled with the utmost terror, he steered his course direct to the point of danger, and with so much calmness and presence of mind as to be able to make and dictate his observations upon the motion and all the phenomena of that dreadful scene. He was now so close to the mountain that the cinders, which grew thicker and hotter the nearer he approached, fell into the ships, together with pumice-stones, and black pieces of burning rock: they were in danger too not only of being aground by the sudden retreat of the sea, but also from the vast fragments which rolled down from the mountain, and obstructed all the shore. Here he stopped to consider whether he should turn back again; to which the pilot advising him, "Fortune," said he, "favours the brave; steer to where Pomponianus is." Pomponianus was then at Stabiae, separated by a bay, which the sea, after several insensible windings, forms with the shore. He had already sent his baggage on board; for though he was not at that time in actual danger, yet being within sight of it, and indeed extremely near, if it should in the least increase, he was determined to put to sea as soon as the wind, which was blowing dead in-shore, should go down. It was favourable, however, for carrying my uncle to Pomponianus, whom he found in the greatest consternation: he embraced him tenderly, encouraging and urging him to keep up his spirits, and, the more effectually to soothe his fears by seeming unconcerned himself, ordered a bath to be got ready, and then, after having bathed, sat down to supper with great cheerfulness, or at least (what is just as heroic) with every appearance of it."TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915822857461178942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-78410386998806762212014-06-02T11:41:31.867-07:002014-06-02T11:41:31.867-07:00Steve, Daniel, Hazen,
Many thanks, and it is stra...Steve, Daniel, Hazen,<br /><br />Many thanks, and it is strangely consoling to know I am not the only person impelled to meditation by such phenomena. There's something eerie about the way a great volcanic eruption seems to freeze human time in its moment.<br /><br /><a href="http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2014/01/friedrich-holderlin-empedokles-into.html" rel="nofollow">Friedrich Hölderlin: Empedokles (Into the Volcano)</a><br /><br /><a href="http://tomclarkblog.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-gardens-of-pompeii.html" rel="nofollow">The Gardens of Pompeii</a><br /><br />I shall now attempt to coax my grotesquely deformed digits to erupt with such typing as required to give what I was too lazy to provide earlier, that is, the run-up to the passage I've quoted from the letter of Pliny the Younger to Tacitus, about this uncle's final hours.<br /><br />"He was at that time with the fleet under his command at Misenum. On the 24th of August, about one in the afternoon, my mother desired him to observe a cloud which appeared of a very unusual size and shape. He had just taken a turn in the sun and, after bathing himself in cold water, and making a light luncheon, gone back to his books: he immediately arose and went out upon a rising ground from whence he might get a better sight of this very uncommon appearance. A cloud, from which mountain was uncertain, at this distance (but it was found afterwards to come from Mount Vesuvius), was ascending, the appearance of which I cannot give you a more exact description of than by likening it to that of a pine tree, for it shot up to a great height in the form of a very tall trunk, which spread itself out at the top into a sort of branches; occasioned, I imagine, either by a sudden gust of air that impelled it, the force of which decreased as it advanced upwards, or the cloud itself being pressed back again by its own weight, expanded in the manner I have mentioned; it appeared sometimes bright and sometimes dark and spotted, according as it was either more or less impregnated with earth and cinders. This phenomenon seemed to a man of such learning and research as my uncle extraordinary and worth further looking into.TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915822857461178942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-48271753281743913502014-06-02T11:33:47.523-07:002014-06-02T11:33:47.523-07:00under a red and black sky
the stink of sulphur and...under a red and black sky<br />the stink of sulphur and<br />a life coming undone<br />as the world cracks apart.<br />wait a minute,<br />are we leaving Hell <br />or arriving at that storied placeHazenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13417573435195561519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-61039283144084401922014-06-02T10:32:59.193-07:002014-06-02T10:32:59.193-07:00From the virgin-thirsty Aztecs to now, volcanos ha...From the virgin-thirsty Aztecs to now, volcanos have always fascinated us, and hellish visions (or hell's appeasement — "throw another virgin on the barbie, or another Barbie into the flames...") somehow so much a part of that fascination. Here's a take on it... with all honor due to all Plinys everywhere...<br />_____________________<br /><br />APPROACH THE RIM OF A VOLCANO<br /><br />Approach the rim of a volcano<br />notice its molten ruby cast<br />the fiery frothing restlessly of roiling spew<br />walk a little closer to the grate of Hell<br />and look down past the flimsy iron bars and note<br />how redder how hotter how angrier and ready to<br /><br />Well I’ve lost interest in describing it any further<br />it’s past my bedtime and past my<br />powers of description or perhaps I just don’t<br />want to believe in Hell I just want to believe in<br />grottoes of ivy-clinging rock walls and fountains so<br />crystalline and plentiful at every turn and in<br />every vista<br /><br />Let Hell burn in its own fires<br />let its roar be muffled in my ears<br /><br />but authorities better than I warn that it’s near<br />and won’t be ignored when the body’s spirit is<br />loosed into its native world<br />and the pendulum hung from unfathomably high<br />swings way back this way to show the cool snows and<br />green valleys of bliss’s endlessness<br /><br />and then swings way forward to reveal<br />the atomic migraine the bone-crushing endless cancerous<br />neuralgia of Hell without letup<br />and our souls nudged toward the<br />pendulum’s judicial slice forever into either<br />one or the other<br />__________________________________________<br />10/302001 (from Where Death Goes, The Ecstatic Exchange)Daniel Abdal-Hayy Moorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05692776372807142753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-3415427665403045892014-06-02T10:02:04.600-07:002014-06-02T10:02:04.600-07:00The Earth followeth next: unto which along of all ...The Earth followeth next: unto which along of all parts of the world, for her singular benefites wee have given the reverent and worshipfull name of Mother. For like as the Heaven is the (mother) of God, even so is she of men. She it is that taketh us when we are comming into the world, nourisheth us when we are new born: and once being come abroad, ever sustaineth & beareth us up: and at the last when we are rejected and forlorne of all the world besides, she embraceth us: then most of all other times, like a kind mother, she covereth us all over in her bosome: by no merit more sacred than by it, wherwith she maketh us hold and sacred; even bearing our tumbes, monuments, and titles, continuing our name, and extending our memorie, thereby to make recompence and weigh against the shortnesse our age: whose last power wee in our anger with to be heavie unto our enemie, and yet she is heavie to none, as if we were ignorant that she along is neg3r angry with any man. Waters ascend up, and turn into cloueds, they congeale and harden into haile, swell they doe into waves and billowes, and downe they hasten headlong into brookes and land floods. The aire is thickened with clouds, and ragteth with winds and stormes. . . .<br /><br />from Plinius Secundus, "The Historie of the World" (trans Philemon Holland, London, 1601)STEPHEN RATCLIFFEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12339481653546188412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4445844569294316288.post-4155252568922511382014-06-01T09:38:02.070-07:002014-06-01T09:38:02.070-07:00Pliny the Elder, the great first century Roman nat...Pliny the Elder, the great first century Roman natural philosopher, and Primo Levi, a chemist, were scientists by inclination, given to the close observation of natural phenomena.<br /><br />Certain key details of the final hours of both these men of enquiring mind have engaged historians, ancient and modern, in some debate.<br /><br />The story of Pliny's last hours as given here comes from a letter addressed twenty-seven years after the event to Tacitus by the Elder Pliny's nephew and heir, Pliny the Younger. A differing account given by Suetonius is speculative, and largely hypothetical.<br /><br />The precise manner of the coming of the end for Primo Levi remains a matter of mystery and controversy.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.bostonreview.net/diego-gambetta-primo-levi-last-moments" rel="nofollow">Diego Gambetta: Primo Levi's Last Moments</a>TChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05915822857461178942noreply@blogger.com